tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 11, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
have the person actually come out and say ai pointed three illegal aliens, sent pictures of my penis on the internet -- we're over. c chris matthews will yell at us. i'm dylan ratigan. "hardball" is next. i'm chris matthews. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, if not now, when. president obama is making it clear. he's willing to take the heat from the left by cutting entitlements. it's time for the republican leaders to be willing to take the heat from the right. he still wants the big deal that would include perhaps cuts in medicare, medicaid and even social security, and with them tax increases. john boehner responded quickly. no to any tax increases, period. well, my question tonight, do
republicans want to deal with really tanking the economy to say no to taxes? the face of the deadlock. the president said both sides have people who refuse to compromise. tonight one from each camp. democrat and tea party republican. i'll ask them what price they'll will be to see the country pay so they can stick to their positions. also, not so excellent adventure. both michele bachmann and rick santorum signed a so-called marriage vow from a conservative group that suggested african-americans had a better family life under slavery. who writes this stuff? and worse yet who would sign on to such stuff? by the way, bachmann leads the pack in a new iowa poll, and a scandal keeps getting bigger. a report the tabloid targeted former prime minister gordon brown's voicemail and bank account. how far will this scandal go? and let me finish with a need for president obama to go big
time on jobs. the right wing and where they want to deal or take the economy off the cliff. wow. susan page, washington bure other chief for "usa today" and major gant, congress the correspondent for the "national journal." two heavyweights. thank you both. that's the pregnant question. where's this going? because the president clearly is willing to triangulatened say i want a deal. talking about all kinds of compromises. he wants social security and the opposition leader, boehner, sort after moderate and conservative whet if you will, is not playing ball. >> what friendly language he used towards john boehner. maybe it doesn't do john boehner good with a truce. his tone was, we want to make a deal but boehner's constrained by his caucus, conservative and a lot of tea party forces and republicans afraid of tea party forces and doesn't sound to me like -- the question clearly is can boehner bring his troops
along for any kind of deal. >> the president is saying two things. i want a big deal, $4 trillion over ten years. like the bipartisan commission boals abowles and simpson and don't want to kick the can down the road. here she portraying speaker boehner as being in a tough spot with his own party. showing sympathy for the lad. let's listen. >> my experience with john boehner is, has been good. i think he's a good man who wants to do right by the country. the politics that swept him into the speakership were good for a midterm election. they're tough for governing. >> tough for governing. >> well, they're very good for a mid-term election, because it allowed him to be part ever the governing conversation, which john boehner clearly is now, and what happened with john bane zer, there was a fundamental disagreement between his definition of tax reform and the
white house definition of tax reform and on the pace which it would be dealt with later on in the year if he were to get this big deal. as details began to filter down the rank and feel, mr. speaker, you're too far out on the limb. so he drew back. the thing the president also said today that was important. he said i have untested problems on my left. they don't know what the social security and medicare cuts are, all this is written in water. until anyone sees these details even of $1 trillion in spending cuts over ten years i'm not sure any of it is practical. until people vote in the house and senate on something real and detailed we have no yt where the underlined politics of all this is. boehner clearly indicated he was pertser ahead than he was comfortable being of his conference. the president may be farther ahead than his party on social security and medicare and until we see the details -- >> talk about why there's a difference. boehner has a short string working for the house republican
majority. works for the 240 members. barack obama still has the, the president of the united states, still has more than a year and a half on his term. he is his own boss. right? he can sort of have more leash there. right? >> absolutely and he's got a lot of -- face it he's got a lot of poll with democrat. he can go too far for congressional democrats the real problem is on the republican side in terms of getting a deal together. we know democrats and independent voters want them to reach a deal. republican voters aren't so enthusiastic. >> why is that so different? why do we have democrats, a lot of moderates watch this show and i haven't heard as much screaming as i've heard from the right an absolutely no give. the absolute intransitness of the right. is that because these tea party people are not really politicians? they came into office with one signal decision. i will not raise taxes under any circumstances. almost like a baptism. they can't break from it. >> they believe that philosophically original lif and the last two months of jobs data
reinforced republican an thing pi towards this. not inconsequently politics. the position two months ago on the economy and jobs issue u, that's why they're driving the hardest bargain they think they can. >> listen the president earlier to at the press conference. >> they keep going out there and saying, mr. president what are you doing about jobs? and when you ask them what would you do? we've got to get government spending under control, and get our deficits under control. so i say, okay. let's go. where are they? i mean, this is -- this is what they claim would be the single biggest boost to business certainty and confidence. so what's the holdup? >> well, the big question, of course, everybody's wondering, ten days to get it done. this is not going on forever. ten days to get the bill passed and to the desk and make it law. i guess the question is, do you
think based upon your reporting, you two, the republican parties are willing to force the president into two simple options. take defeat and sign on to just a spending cut in tax increase or face default? are they willing to jam him that hard? you seem to be more perky going for this. is that an answer you can give me? >> it is. right now house and senate republicans will take $1 trillion in spending cuts maybe $200 billion in user fees land sales and auction sell-offs. that's it. the upper echelon. something they will call revenue enhancements. a semantic dancing game. >> not tax increases? >> not tax increases or tax reform. $1 trillion, gets you into late spring of next year, which is outside the bandwidth of what the president said today. 30 days, 60 days, 120 days. it would be longer than that. that sweet spot in the middle. >> and ideal time to be dealing with these. >> and said today -- >> and top democrat house budget
committee said we have $1 trillion we've agreed to. i'm telling you, $1 trillion appears to me to be both politically and policy possible. >> republicans are-doctor not we are persuaded that there's catastrophe if we don't reach this deadline. >> they're not? >> and the american are not. >> the american people are not experts. the republicans have the best access. as good access as the democrats to money market information. do they really not want to believe it or willing to risk a disaster for the president? >> there are republicans who are not convinced. >> besides -- no, i mean michele bachmann, i'm talking in the same part of the republican party? >> give me -- august 2nd is real and has every intention -- >> i want to talk about the deficit. name a main stream republican that feels they don't have to deal with the debt crisis by august 2nd? >> the republican party feels that way. jim demint, an iran influential
senator. >> it's incredible he's a united states senator. incredible. he came out and said -- he said today he will not agree a debt ceiling hike unless there's a constitutional amendment. he knows that will never happen. >> you can't pat now, especially the way the balance budget who been drafted. eight times now. limiting government spending, 18% of gross dough pefk product. it's 24% now. never get 64 votes in the united states senator. >> the republican party -- >> that priority hey no -- >> take a look. conference speaker boehner laid it out. the ob stick ills to the deal. let's listen to him. >> this boils down to two things -- and i said it on saturday night. the president continues to insist on raising taxes, and they're just not serious enough about fundamental entitlement reform to solve the problem for the year to intermediate future.
i want to get there. i want to do what i think is in the best interests of country. but it takes two to tango, and they're not there yet. >> let me ask you this, is the republican part more afraid of a fiscal disaster in is country say on the level of portugal or island? not quite greece, and more like the tea party? leaders like him? more afraid of, possible disaster or a lynching by his own people. >> i think boehner tried to walk the line. >> so you're not sure what he's supposed to be afraid of? >> what good does he do obama if he's no longer speaker? it's tricky politics. not so simple. >> and they don't want to default. they said so publicly. they're in negotiations to avoid a default and try to drive the hardest bargain. they're telling the president, you didn't raise taxes in a lame duck session when you had 59
democrats in the senate and almost 1260 in t260 ins house. don't expect the republicans to raise it. as a matter of politics that doesn't work. that's the message to the president. >> not fair what we're talking about. talking about raising taxes for people above $250,000 next year by 2013. not now. two years fromunderstood. >> it's presidential mathemat mathematics, for the sake of argument. knows the bush tax cuts expire in 2012. hi we can book in deaf deficit reduction, it could have given him negotiating clout over some of those to expire bush tax cuts which he'd like to preserve. >> ten days to go. use up the whole ten days to get something done? >> always.
>> this week is ar preparing the message for 2010. republican, doing a much better job. >> because he's in the middle? >> looks like he's moderate. bending over backwards. i'm the adult. you walked away, took your ball and went home. the republicans would like to see the president more pressed on what kips of didn't-that's not happening. the president will play the reasonableness. i'm the triangular. that will play out all this week. next week this has to get done because the time clock ticks next week in a real way and the bond markets and stock market will -- >> i want to be in a position to figure it out. i still want to know the list of reasonable republicans that don't think we're facing a crisis here. thank you boench. coming up, president obama says there are people on both sides, left and right, who refuse to compromise. we're going to meet two likely suspects. i don't think either wants to compromise either on medicare or taxes depending wloon side they're coming from.
both sides at their battle stations. we'll talk to them when we come back. "hardball," only on msnbc. [ female announcer ] ever wish vegetables didn't taste so vegetably? well, v8 v-fusion juice gives you a full serving of vegetables, plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit. and try our deliciously refreshing v8 v-fusion + tea.
democrats who don't want to touch social security or medicare and republicans that don't want to raise taxes. talking about our next guest. congress mon donna edwards of maryland. thank you for joining us. a member of the progressive caucus about just as important came to our 15th anniversary party last week. thank you for being one of our great guests. look, i'm trying to figure what's givable and what's not. would you agree to any cuts in social security benefits? >> you know, first of all let's just start from the premise and the president agreeance social security is not the reason we've run up our long-term debts and so my preference would be if we're going to have a conversation about associate xushty solve vencie beyond 2027 is no in these debt discussions. the cause of our long-term debt are related to things the republicans don't want to give up on. i'd rather have that conversation. >> we don't deal with associate
securi social security cuts. medicare costs going through the roof. would you touch medicare benefits or costs? >> no. one of the things we did in the affordable care act last year is actually looked at ways we can make medicare more efficient, making sure we can protect it for the long term and, again, i want to have those conversations. here's what we are dealing with. we need to raise the debt ceiling knop question. i've take than vote and i'd take it again to make sure we deal with the full faith and credit of the united states and meet our obligations. we can't have a conversation about seniors and those on disability and poor people having to sacrifice everything but republicans don't want to ask the wealthiest 2% millionaires and billionaires to give up tax cuts causing a major part of our long term debts and our deficits. two wars in iraq and afghanistan that if we were to draw down earlier for example, in
afghanistan would deal with long-term debt issues. so let's put those things on the table. corporate loopholes, instead of just turning to the piggy bank of social security and medicare. >> what about medicaid? would you cut that? >> medicaid, i mean, the challenge we have from medicaid is we want to make sure that we don't shift, simply shift the burden on to our states, which really can't afford that right now. again, the conversations about these entitlement programs while i find might be, you know, important for us to engage in, we're conflating apples an oranges when it comes to, one, listing our debt ceiling and dealing with major causal factors for our long-term debt. >> i'm asking about all these possible cuts, which you've rejected, because the cost of government right now is up to about 25% of our economy right now. and the revenues are about at 16%. seems to me to get 0 to some quality, raise revenues to 2022 and bring down the government of
government. get them anywhere even in the long term. can you point to an area where you really want to cut government spending? >> i mean, i think -- i agree with our leaders -- >> below 25%. >> van holland and clyburn negotiating with the vice president on a set of cuts i think makes sense. they're painful. painful for pell grants and student loans and things like that. willing to accept those, but we've got to put revenues on the table p table. you know what? focus on getting 21 million people back to work to contribute to the revenue pool. so i just think there are things that actually have been kept off the table particularly by, what i think are petulant republican leaders who don't understand that you can't have, of the $14 trillion debt, you know, you have a couple of trillion of it that corporate tax loopholes that are tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires. that stuff in terms of revenue has to be on the table.
>> what about your understanding of the situation? because some people in the tea party write, and i don't think they're balanced are challenging where the country has a problem if it doesn't meet its obligations. any reservations about the fact we need to find some resolution to this thing by august 2nd? >> absolutely. i listened to secretary geithner. listened to the president and absolutely agree. august 2nd is a hard and fast date. under the reagan presidency, we raised the debt ceiling 17 times, and you know, i think that it's time for us to do this now. this is about meeting obligations that we've already incurred. people lost a tremendous amount in their retirement, their 401(k) plans with the financial crisis of two years ago. it would be that and spades if we were to allow this august 2nd date to pass. i think it's very serious and anybody who thinks we should run right up until august 2nd and beyond is really playing with
fire, and it's actually very irresponsible. again, i've take than debt ceiling vote and would be happy to take it tomorrow so we can meet the full faith and obligations of the united states. >> thank you so much. u.s. congresswoman donna edwards, a member of the progressive people in the u.s. congress. joining me now, republican congressman of texas, a member of the tea party caucus. sers, any revenues you'd accept? would you accept a tax increase for people over $250,000 a year? would you take back, say, the bush tax cuts by -- >> no. >> 2013? >> no. >> would you raise the tax for people that make over half a million a year? >> chris, it's a terrible idea to raise taxes on anyone in an environment like this. >> just to run through this. how about people that make over $1 million? you wouldn't raise people over a quarter million, how about a million? would you raise their taxes? >> chris, you don't want to raise taxes on anybody in an envirnltd. i want to get rid of the ethanol
subsidies. there's one we could agree on. chris, we as a nation, the council of representatives just elected, the largest change in over 70 years in the country, spoke decisively they want spending under control. they want the government shrunk. they want the government out of our lives, out of or pockets and we in the house were elected to represent the country. >> sure. >> in this last election i think made it clear, chris. we've got to cut spending, cut taxes, and focus on jobs. you grow jobs by cutting taxes. >> let's go back to the fact, i submitted to congresswoman edwards, which are, 16% of the economy is revenue, going to the federal government and 25% is government spending by the federal government. you're spending 25% of the economy and only raising revenues from 16%. how do you close that gap while ignoring the revenue side? >> it's not a -- >> doesn't make sense. >> it's not a revenue problem. my predecessor, bill archer, as prit waterhouse had a study done. if you confiscated 100% of all
income over -- >> excuse me -- >> all corporate income. this is important. confiscated all corporate income generate $1.3 trillion. if you confiscate 100% of all individual income, generate $2.1 trillion. confiscated all the money out there, it generating about $3.4 trillion, but the annual unfunded liability, chris, of medicare and all these other programs grow by $5 trillion a year. this is not a revenue problem. it's a spending problem. >> okay. you don't deal with revenues, through spending cuts. how will you reduce spending of the united states government down to 16% of the economy from 25%? how are you going to do it? drop the cost's government. 9% of the u.s. economy. how do you do that without revenues? >> first repeal -- >> we're nots spending that money now. that's not 25%. >> chris, first of all -- >> how will you do it? >> when we have the president any two years obama care right
out of the gate. the ryan budget, which i supporteded, exempts everybody over the age of 55. no one 55 years or older is affected by the ryan budget but we have to change medicare so it's solvent for people in the future who are younger than 55. it's not going to be there for you if you're about probably age 40 or younger, medicare is gone. not going to be there. >> how do you pay for the united states military, the kbrits government, all of these entitle programs and only spend 16% of the u.s. economy? you're not being reasonable leer. you know that the government's not being financed up to its actual cost level. that's the problem. >> chris, the problem's worse than you stated. look at it from the perspective how much income is brought in every year, we bring in about $2.2 trillion in revenue from all sources every year. but the government spends $2.3 trillion for medicare, medicaid, social security, national debt and veterans benefits.
at the stroke of midnight, eliminate the entire federal budget all of it. >> are you going to do that? to balance the budget? you keep laughing, but you guys -- >> you keep sbrept interrupting me. >> chris -- >> no. >> please don't interrupt me. you're a thoughtful guy. the problem is so fear we have to look at entitle programs and make them solvents. you can can't do it with spending cuts at the pentagon, eliminating foreign aid. it's a part of it, cutting where we can, but you have to fix the entitlement programs and make them solve ntd. my colleague donna edwards said as all democrat, saying they're not looking. pudding on blinders, not looking at medicare or social security. we must have an adult conversation and we were elected in the house to control spending, to cut taxes, to repeal obama care and get the government out of our lives and finally, chris, if we would simply follow my hero thomas jefferson's advice and the core
principles, shrink the government -- >> the problem is that once you get down to all of your cuts, when you pay for what's left, that's what i'm asking. will you pay the costs of the federal government? >> chris, you have -- >> can't you answer that simple proposition? will you pay for what you have to? >> we will absolutely. all of us in the congress want to make sure the nation doesn't default on obligations. we working hard to make sure that doesn't happen. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> from texas. up next, the truth about michele bachmann's former career. you're watching "hardball." only on msnbc.
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tim pawlenty turns hard right. the under performer said yesterday it's clear, unclear why being gay is a choice. hmm. here she on "meet the press." >> is being gay a choice? >> the science that regard is in dispute. no scientific conclusion it's genetic. we don't know that. we don't know to what extent it's dehavl and something debateded by scientists for a long time. >> that sounds like back in 1998, trent lott liking homosex walt to alcoholism and clept mania, called it a sin. the country has moved light years ahead on gay rights. the big question, has the republican party moved with it. finally, resume inflation. congresswoman michele bachmann tells her back groound as a federal tax litigation attorney, helping you not have to pay taxes? more to the story. according to the "wall street journal" bachmann worked for the irs counsel office collecting
taxes. she was the tax man. ironic, considering her status as the tea party leader in congress. hmm. changes. up next, michele bachmann is one of two republican presidential candidates signed on to a pledge by a religious right group in iowa that actually suggested slavery was better for african-american family life than the country is today. that's ahead, believe it or not. you're watching "hardball." only on msnbc. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america,
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meanwhile, euro zone's palestiniansters meeting in brussels to talk about keeping greece's debt problems from spreading to italy and spain, your third and fourth largest economies. european banks trading in the u.s. took a beating as the euro hit a six-week low against the dollar. of course, u.s. banks weren't looking any better in the wake ever friday's dismal jobs reports and ahead of earnings this week, but the red didn't stop there. oil prices tumbling on signs ever slowing demand in china dragging energy stocks low are across the board. finally, alcoa sharply lower ahead of warnings delivered after the closing bell, but helped deliver earnings and revenue pretty much in line with expectation. that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball" with chris matthews.
while we're heading boo nut country now, welcome back to "hardball." in iowa, conservative groups, a family leader wants all the gop candidates this year to sign a new marriage vow. it's an attempt to make a point about the significance of marriage a preamble saying, slavery had a disastrous impact on african-american families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an african-american baby born after the election of the usa's first african-american president. the organization backtracked and took out that language saying it could be misconstrued. that was just the tip of the iceberg for this marriage vow. so far michele bachmann and rick santorum happily signed as written. original wolff, msnbc political analyst and sha shana walsh, has sarah palin on the cover of "newsweek." there it is. what is it about the instinct of
these candidates so desperate like rick santorum and michele bachmann, they'll sign anything, even this ludicrous claim that an african-american family life was pretty good back in 1860 when your kids be being sold on the block? >> it's just unbelievable. another example of completely incorrect and horrible mistakes in history, but also as you said, it's just that every single vow and pledge just needs to be signed. it doesn't even seem like either of them have read this vow before they signed it. >> they said they did. they thought they did read it. rick santorum liked the sound of it. life was better fon african-americans under jefferson davis. i'm going to rich on this. this is -- this is -- >> it's something that, can we count the ways how offensive it is? first of all, interesting they all want to be leaders but people on both sides, they sign everything that comes in the
door because they're desperate. candidate obama laid things he distanced himself from. this one isn't just saying the family unit was great during slavery. worse now under president obama. which more offensive? nonsense, ridiculous but speaks to some of the differences, where republicans are way out of line. >> you've looped into this. another part of the vow. vigorous opposition to any redefinition of the institution of marriage, faithful monogamy between one man and one woman through statutory bureaucratic or court imposed recognition of intimate unions which are big mouse, polygamous, polyan drowse or polygamous and also keep saying, one man, one woman. is this about the lds church of the old days? with are they threeing in the one man, one woman thing if not a direct shot against governor romney?
why do they keep doing it? >> they steam to want to try to create more fear around the more's faith mor mormon faith in iowa. there is a lot of peer around mormonism from a lot of evangelicals and this is stirring it around even more. in 2007 i spent a lot of time with governor romney in iowa and you saw a lot of people who liked him but i believe it's a cult. the family leader, which is an influential group could do the opposite and kim out and say, listen, that mormon people, people that believe in mormonism also believe in jesus christ. instead, trying to stir more of this fear up. >> look at this, rich you get the next one. the vow, more interesting. here's one that talks about marriage. you know, different sex marriage, heterosex yal marriage being better sex. amazing to ache make this in ta promise. recognition of the overwhelming statistical evidence that married people enjoy better health, better sex, longer
lives, greater financial stability and that children raised by a mother and father together experience better learning less addiction less legal trouble and less extramarital pregnancy. why do they have to vow to this? >> it's just one thing that, when do the candidates say, why am i signing on for something that -- who reads this stuff? yes, trying to be popular about it. why deny to any group? same-sex couple, such a great thing. there is plenty of evidence. >> it's selling, why is selling so hard? >> they are both -- the irony is, trying to make this stuff extreme. same-sex marriage a weird practice, in fact only showing their own weirdness with this stuff. >> here we go to what i think is part of the strangest part. shoshana you want to talk about this, the whole question of better sex. let me show you the last one. sort of funny, too. recognition that robust child bearing and reproduction is
beneficial to u.s. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security. talk about uncle sam getting involved in your life. here's a right wing group telling you you should be invofred in robust child bearing. i guess that means a lot of healthy kids, a lot of robust kids, or a robust number of kids. not sure what they mean. i guess i do. shoshana? >> it's so strange. where are the facts and numbers to back this up? so much of this, these vows are statements, taken at facts and i mean, the few little facts. i think it's interesting what richard just said about trying to make these points of the otherness, where same-sex marriage or otherness and maybe people that are trying to point out about the mormon faith and the others, when we know that the lds church banned polygamist marriage over 100 years ago, and it seems to just want to create
more firestorms and more controversial when it's unnecessary. and these candidates want to support a family leader. in the iowa cakes it's important, but why should it be? >> i keep saying, packed with huge numbers of kids, sitting around the table eating bread and gravy. this huge crowd. anyway, just a thought. i'm not sure what the image is but it's certainly strange. this is a religious right called the family leaders backed by people like tony perkins and family research and all those people. anyway, richard wolff, thank, shoshana, thanks. up next speaking of which, rupert murdoch, hero of fox news and news of the worldance scandal in britain. it's widening. a tabloid hacked into former prime minister's gordon brown the voicemail. never stops. har far will it go? this is "hardball" only on msnbc. for broccoli, say one.
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michelle obama and hillary clinton travel 20 california tomorrow to attend the funeral of former first lady betty ford. mrs. ford died friday at the age of 93. mrs. ford lived in southern california where she famously established the great betty ford center which treated celebrities for alcohol and drug abuse. tomorrow's service will be near the center and then she'll be laid to rest next to her husband in the gerald ford president's library in michigan. i've been there. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] members of the american postal workers union handle more than 165 billion letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer?
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yesterday's edition of the rupert murdoch tabloid "news of the world"the paper was forced to shut down amid a widening scandal including accusations of bribery and phone hacking. it's getting worst. the "mirror" reports they tried to hack into the voice in mails of 9/11 families. gordon brown alleges reporters tried to gain access into his family's bank and medical records. also reports that a royal protection officer accepted bribes in exchange for phone numbers of the royal family itself. murdoch arrived in london as his bid to buy british sky broadcasting ran into resistance. calling the media mogul to "do the decent, sensible thing and reconsider." what does all this mean for the murdoch empire including fox news and its hold on british policy? joining us, stephanie, is this going to be the beginning of the
crumbling of the fox empire? the news corporation empire? or will they hold up and keep all their people alive on this? >> well, it might be a little early to predict the demise of rupert murdoch's empire, but certainly this is chipping away at it. what we've seen today, pretty astonishing. the dep pi prime minister in the country coming out publicly and telling rupert murdoch business advice. back away from the deal. you've tarnished your image it will not be accepted by the government or anyone else in this country to move forward with this merger. important merger for the corporation. >> but is this stalingrad? that time when you try to reach your empire zenith and you're beaten and start to head back yards? i'm serious about this. this guy had to close a major newspaper, his founding origin. it may be junk but it was how he got started in the world. the trash they put out and now
is forced to perhaps under the pressure of the it was a crash of the british government itself which he usually had some hand in it himself. will he have it break this deal? will he have to give up? >> it looks like the deal at the very least is on hold. it could be scuttled all together. there are people here who say this is the beginning of end of this merger. is this the beginning of the end of news corp? it may be a bit early to predict that but some people are questioning some of murdoch's choices, specifically the fact that he continues to support rebecca brooks. one of his executives, former editor of news of the world. there have been numerous cries for him to step down. even as news of the world closes and all of its employees are fired. chris? >> thank you for joining us. what do you make of this, this kind ever stuff? actually we haven't gotten to this level here in this country. hacking into the telephone perhaps of gordon brown, his bank records. family members of 9/11 family
victims. getting the royal family's phone number. how do they do this stuff? >> it is stunning. >> technically stunning. >> absolutely stunning. most of all, for the murdoch empire is everyday, it seems to get worse. these latest revelations about people intercepting the voice mails of gordon brown, may be accessing medical records of his sick, very sick son. >> did they feed this to fox over here? did they pedal it over here? >> obviously, this is sensational stuff. my network is fascinating. 80% of britain no longer trusts the media but more alarming, they don't trust the politicians. more alarming than that he the do not trust the police to investigate. that really represents something of a crisis for a kind of british intelligence. >> let me go back to stephanie. rupert murdoch had managed to get his u.s. citizenship.
he knows how to pedal influence. he knows thousand get inside. h this is overlay where it is not just yellow journalism, it is the power of journalists that have power within governments. >> well, absolutely. you talk about cameron having the cozy relation slship betwee the politicians and tabloids. people now, politicians specifically, can come out publicly and criticize the tabloids. there was fear in the past, this is part of the equation, if they came out publicly against a tabloid, that then they would have to face nasty headlines and perhaps investigation niece their personal lives. they also specifically had frafr with the tabloids because getting support from a tabloid could mean success in a campaign. and right now, you see, an effort in recent days to really go at heart of that power and influence and try to dismantle it.
chris? >> yeah, isn't it true, if they didn't like the politics, they would put a naked picture of your wife or a top less picture of somebody to humiliate them? >> dirty tricks. >> credibility to put somebody's head on somebody else. >> they put somebody's head on someone else's top less picture. >> a lot of dirty tricks. the question is can it be contained to the news of the world. there are signs that tomorrow we will hear that it spread "the sun" and more reputable sunday times. if so, that's clearly a much bigger deal for the murdoch empire in britain. >> he's been taking news organizations down to the right since he got ahoefld his first one. that's his reputation. did he ever improve an organization. >> well, he had some good journalism but he had more peril. >> thank you for joining us from across the pond. i hope it stays across the pond. let me finish with the jobs and
what president and his staff should be doing to create more of them. not just talking about debt ceilings but the stuff democrats have always been good at, jobs. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. introducing the schwab mobile app. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done.
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for a senator in utah. counting up the public works and economic development projects that, shovel-ready if the government would approve them. jobs putting people to work doing things that needed doing. not leaf raking but sewers up to code and water systems in place. a republican leaders complained a jobs bill the democrats were pushing was make-work. i called the chief engineer in his district and got the names of the bridges not meeting code. it was read in congress. p t upset the republican leader but it made a point. there is good work that needs to be done and this is a good time to get doing it. if not now, when. the president asked that about the debt ceiling. if not now, when. we could demand the same of our politicians about job. the bill passed two years ago ain't very stimulating. not because it was too big but because it was a pip squeak pfr after you take out the tax cuts it goes to job creation. real public spending with 1% of the american economy.
1%. no matter the stimulus is out of juice. never had much to begin with. i read paul crewingen's column in the new york times. he made a go point. the government has fewer people working for it that when obama came into office. we have no real money going into public works or public service jobs. have you your explanation a there why we have 9.2% unemployment rate. i like the fact the president is trying to compromise with the republicans who control the house but one of the big dilutions is always that the truth is smart policy is somewhere in the middle between the two sides being argued. maybe we have to go back to the old style partisan politics on this. you know, like getting that lit together of all of the bridges below code in john boehner's district or eric cantor's or kevin mccarthy's. put a little heat under their butts. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. more politics ahead with al sharpton.